Curse

Clinically Proven · Oct 18, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Okay help me out boys and girls, I'm pulling my hair out trying to find the optimal place for a hard rez, in the following GvG Build, of course for the purpose of the exercise attributes aren't required:

Warrior/Necromancer
Frenzy, Sever Artery, Gash, Final Thrust, Bull's Charge [Elite], Healing Signet,
Plague Touch, Resurrection Signet

Warrior/Necromancer
Frenzy, Eviscerate [Elite],Executioner's Strike, Bull's Strike, Sprint, Healing Signet, Plague Touch, Resurrection Signet

Ranger/Mesmer
Apply Poison, Crippling Shot [Elite], Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Debilitating Shot, Troll Unguent, Distortion, Resurrection Signet

Ranger/Mesmer
Melandru's Arrows [Elite], Pin Down, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Debilitating Shot, Troll Unguent, Distortion, Resurrection Signet

Necromancer/Elementalist
Tainted Flesh [Elite], Rotting Flesh, Putrid Explosion, Blood Ritual, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Ward Against Melee, Ward Against Foes, Resurrection Signet

Monk/Assassin
Standard Blight Monk

Monk/Mesmer
Stanard Boon Monk

Elementalist/Monk - Runner
Ice Spikes, Deep Freeze, Blinding Flash, Armor of Mist, Ether Prodigy [Elite],
Heal Party, Extinguish, Healing Breeze

My thoughts are to make the Melandru's ranger R/Rt with skill bar as follows:

Melandru's Arrows [Elite], Pin Down, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Debilitating Shot, Troll Unguent, Whirling Defence, Lively Was Naomi.

I suppose the alternative is making the Necro - N/Mo with rez chant.

Reasoning goes:
1. Putting the hard rez on a Necro (ie making it N/Mo) means you get the full length of the rez unprotected and easily interrupted and loose your wards. Whereas putting it on a Ranger, with whirling means for the full cast time, the ranger has a 75% chance to block. Hmmmm 75% chance to block a savage, distracting shot, distracting blow vs. 0% chance.

2. Whirling still provides some defence for the ranger when not rezzing, admittedly not as good as distortion.

3. Wards completely own aegis, both in protection and energy spent. The Damage mitigated by having two wards is going to seriously outweigh loosing distortion on one ranger.

Why Lively Was Naomi?:
* Goes through Frozen Soil, any decent spike team will have a frozen
* Yay for rezzing multiple people at once
* Equal shortest cast time (6 seconds)
* Characters are rezzed with more health than if using Resurrect.
* Can be cast from away from the action and then ran through to rez, giving less chance again of being interrupted.

Anyone else got a better idea?

Nacho_owns · Oct 18, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

if you ask me its a really wierd build... but if i were to put hard rez i put ressurect on the emo...

Berzerk · Oct 18, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Condition Degen Pressure is a really wierd build?
And you need your hard rez at the stand, not on a runner who's not going to be around to use it. Most runners don't even carry a sig.

This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from these kinds of builds. You don't have any /Mos, so no Draw or hard rez. Obviously you have Draw covered with PT on the wars, but I always feel uncomfortable without Chant on an ele or mes.
Your idea is, I guess, as good as you can get with this build, though idk about Lively, maybe Flesh of My Flesh would be better?

Thom Bangalter · Oct 18, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I think it should be on the crip shot actually since you have nowhere else to put and ideally the crip shot will be a little further back since he has to keep cripple on the warriors.....

wait you have return. Dammit! either of the rangers carrying lively is pretty solid though....

However, It's not that rediculous to put it on the runner. especially if you do glyph of sacrifice+rez chant, he can rez someone at the stand then continue to run flags.

Edited to drop the comment about the tainted, it's 3 in the morning so I'm not thinking straight.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 18, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Make the necro N/Mo and put it on him. You'll need Draw Conditions to keep the rangers clean, and you can do an Aegis chain with the runner to keep pretty decent defense.

Program Ftw · Oct 18, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Put Resurrect on the Necro, along with Aegis and Convert hexes, just for fun.

You have Pin-Down on the Melandrus? You already have a Crip Shot ranger, I hope he's competant?

Program Ftw · Oct 18, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I think it should be on the crip shot actually since you have nowhere else to put and ideally the crip shot will be a little further back since he has to keep cripple on the warriors.....

I think you're missing the point of how a Crip-Shot should be played in a GvG. People take Distortion and Troll Unguent for a reason.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 18, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

I disagree. I think keeping crippled on warriors trying to ravage your backline is a lot more effective, especially because if they overextend and degen down enough your warriors can fall back and spike them.

people take blackout for a reason too, and that's often to reset adrenaline on warriors.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 18, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

The real strength of their Cripshot is their versatility. They can play defensively, crippling warriors and interrupting key offensive moves. They can play offensively, spreading degen and disrupting or snaring crucial targets. They can give you a lead on flags by snaring the enemy runner so your warriors can beat on him. Want a base ganker? They're decent at that too. Want someone to run the flag? They fit the role fine.

There's no one area where the Cripshot template really excels. There are better characters for movement control, better characters for pure disruption, better characters for ganks, ect. If the Cripshot in your build is limited in options because he has to sit around the backlines and hardres, he isn't being used to his fullest potential, IMO.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 18, 2006, 09:19 AM // 09:19

I agree with you squidget, but I'm not sure what Program was referring too. I was assuming he meant crippling monks or something, which confused me. When I'm using crippling shot a lot, it's not on backline characters.

Ensign · Oct 18, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

You want either a fast cast Mesmer/Monk with a good amount of Fast Casting and Resurrection Chant, or an Elementalist/Monk with Glyph of Sacrifice and Resurrection Chant. Those are the only two options IMO.

Peace,
-CxE

Avarre · Oct 18, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Make the necro N/Mo and put it on him. You'll need Draw Conditions to keep the rangers clean, and you can do an Aegis chain with the runner to keep pretty decent defense.

Seconded.

Granted, it will be a slower and more dangerous res than either of the usual two (mentioned by Ensign), but it's the one that fits best into your build.

Novita · Oct 18, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Hi.

I would consider running necro/monk using aegis and/or extinguish and/or draw conditions instead of wards since you have 2 distortions 2 wars and 1 ninja monk. Also, you really need draw conditions IMO because of the 4 physical guys.

Then, go to your emo use glyph instead of extinguish and drop breeze to fit the hard res. The only drawback i see, is that your necro could have energy issues even though having 2 plague touch.

Muppet87 · Oct 18, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

N/E runner, iGi style!

Emo at stand with Glyph of Sac + Res Chant F-T-W.

Or you can simply turn the N/E stand necro into a N/Mo and solve all your problems.

[Edit: switch N/E to N/Mo throw in Aegis, Convert, and Draw and throw in a Aegis on your flagger, your gonna need it, imo.]

CrispyCritter · Oct 18, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Another possibility would be to turn the Melandru's Arrows ranger into an Oath Shot trapper, and give him Flesh of My Flesh. Oath Shot would allow you to keep Whirling up 24/7, and the traps, particularly Dust Trap and Barbed Trap, will give you some warrior hate in addition to the damage they do.

My problem with Lively is that it's 15 energy, and it forces you to get close to the target you want to rez. It also rezzes them with low health and zero energy, which isn't really good either.

Alternatively you could put an E-Surge mesmer in the build, as between Disease and Poison people will already be at -8 degen, so the Melandru's guy would only be doing another -2 degen, which hardly seems worth it. You could also put the E-Surge guy in place of the necro, although that would force you to drop your wards, which I admit are nice for defense.

Stealth Rider · Oct 19, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Another possibility would be to turn the Melandru's Arrows ranger into an Oath Shot trapper

This could work out even better with Nightfall, as he could use Barbed Arrows to keep the Bleed pressure.

Royale · Oct 19, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Resurrect or Glyph of Sac and Res Chant on the emo. Not a big fan of pressure builds with only two melee characters though. Not violent enough.

Program Ftw · Oct 19, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

The real strength of their Cripshot is their versatility. They can play defensively, crippling warriors and interrupting key offensive moves. They can play offensively, spreading degen and disrupting or snaring crucial targets. They can give you a lead on flags by snaring the enemy runner so your warriors can beat on him. Want a base ganker? They're decent at that too. Want someone to run the flag? They fit the role fine.

There's no one area where the Cripshot template really excels. There are better characters for movement control, better characters for pure disruption, better characters for ganks, ect. If the Cripshot in your build is limited in options because he has to sit around the backlines and hardres, he isn't being used to his fullest potential, IMO.

/agree

Clinically Proven · Oct 19, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Thank you all for your input so far, I appreciate it.

If anyone is interested I went with the N/Mo option for now and swapped in Blackout on the Melandru's ranger.

ump · Oct 20, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

You want either a fast cast Mesmer/Monk with a good amount of Fast Casting and Resurrection Chant, or an Elementalist/Monk with Glyph of Sacrifice and Resurrection Chant. Those are the only two options IMO.

Peace,
-CxE

That's what I was going to say. If you can't put a hard rez in one of these two slots, you might as well just go with another rez signet.